Greta Gerwig: “Ken is nothing without Barbie, he’s a hilarious and tragic figure”

The Lady Bird director directs Margot Robbie and Ryan Gosling in Barbie, now available on VOD, DVD and Blu-Ray. We interviewed her for the release of the film.

Updated November 26, 2023: A few months after its immense success at the box office (1.4 billion receipts worldwide, more than 4 million admissions in France), the phenomenon barbie continues his career in VOD, DVD and Blu-Ray. A hit that its director, Greta Gerwig, coming from independent cinema, didn’t dare to guess when she gave us an interview last July, just before the release of the film and the start of the actors’ strike. She detailed for us the conception of this film, both enormous and very personal, which she co-wrote with Noah Baumbach and nourished by her love for the great directors of the golden age of Hollywood, such as Ernst Lubitsch and Howard Hawks.

Watch Barbie on VOD on Première Max

Article from July 20, 2023: Revealed as an actress in Greenbergseen at Woody Allen (To Rome With Love), then consecrated by Frances Hawhere she starred opposite Adam Driver (while co-writing the screenplay), Greta Gerwig is a pure product of New York independent cinema. Moved into production with Lady Bird Then The Daughters of Doctor March, nothing predestined her a priori to take the helm of a blockbuster. Who’s Plus the first live action film featuring the doll barbie. And yet…

Thanks to the support of Margot Robbiechosen to embody barbie and promoted to producer, Greta Gerwig had a free hand to write the film (with his partner Noah Baumbach) and direct it. Just before the actors’ strike, she gave us an interview by Zoom, where she detailed the creation of the project and her approach to this colorful adaptation which is inspired by the golden age of Hollywood and makes finally the pride of place for the character of Ken, played by Ryan Gosling.

Barbie: Greta Gerwig’s film is not made of plastic (review)

Premiere: Your previous film, The Daughters of Doctor March, was already a big production, with a star-rich cast. But Barbie is by far your biggest film to date. How did you manage the pressure and the hype around this blockbuster?

Greta Gerwig: I think I was very lucky. I worked as an actress, which gave me a lot of experience. Then I had co-written four films I think, when I directed Lady Bird. And then passing from Lady Bird to Daughters of Doctor March, I moved up a notch, with more teams to manage, a bigger field to manage. And of course, it’s yet another level with this film. Being able to go through the stages this way helped me a lot. The current generalization of filmmakers does not often have the chance to experience these intermediate stages. Average films hardly exist anymore. Movies the size of Daughters of Doctor March are extremely rare. Oddly, there are fewer than huge blockbusters. Going from a tiny film to a massive film is a problem. Maybe there are still horror films that can represent this intermediate stage, but I won’t be able to make one, I’m too afraid (laughs).

What did Barbie mean to you when you started working on the film?

Barbie represents my childhood. I liked Barbie, Barbie interested me. But I had a mother who didn’t like Barbie and didn’t want me to have a Barbie. So I already knew all the anti-Barbie arguments when I discovered Barbie. I had lots of Barbies lent to me by neighbors. It was my relationship with her. I played with lots of dolls, but I also adopted lots of Barbies.

What type of audience did you have in mind when you started working on the film?

When Noah and I wrote the film, we were in lockdown during the pandemic. We could no longer go to the cinema. And we didn’t know if we could ever go back. With Noah, going to the cinema, being in a dark room with a bunch of people, that’s what we prefer. The situation was sad, but it also gave us freedom, we said to ourselves let’s go all out. Who knows if cinema will ever come back? So let’s make this wild and anarchic comedy, with emotion too. It was a response to our isolation. So I hope that men and women from 8 to 80 years old will go see the film. I don’t see it as a film for children or adults. It’s a crazy adventure for everyone.

Diabo Cody, who is known for writing Junoworked on a previous version of barbie, and recently she complained that Sony Pictures (which had then signed a partnership with Mattel) did not give her enough creative freedom. How did you obtain this freedom? Was it given to you or did you take it?

I feel very lucky that we had this freedom. I don’t know, maybe we took it. We were very clear with the studio and with everyone. We wrote in our corner. We wanted to be left alone to let our imagination work, to create what we wanted to create, that’s how we work best. Nobody approved of what we were doing. We followed the order of operations. When we finished the script, we both loved it. That’s when I decided I couldn’t let someone do it for me. It was crazy and fantastic, it made fun of everyone, but it was a celebration at the same time. I didn’t need to direct a Barbie movie, but I wanted to direct this one.

We also benefited from having Margot Robbie as the film’s star and producer. She said : “This is the film I want to make!“And then Ryan Gosling and all these actors started coming onto the project. At some point it was, “We’re going to have to stop ourselves from doing it.“. This is the movie that all these people want to make.

How did the collaboration with Mattel go? Certain elements of the film must not have pleased them…

There were clearly things they didn’t want. But the film was like that. There was a lot of nervousness, which is understandable. They run a company and an iconic brand that people love. And I think they were afraid. Anything disruptive or negative could remind people of bad memories. But I was convinced that this is what we had to do to move forward, we had to bring out the embarrassing files. The film had to be incisive and sharp, not just marshmallow, even if there are a lot of them. I also believe that it was done with kindness, the heart of the film is not cruel. So I was comfortable approaching all of that.

There are several films in one in barbie. The film about Barbie of course, but also the film Ken, patriarchy and feminism and also the film about the mother played by America Ferrara who has a difficult relationship with her teenage daughter. Were you not afraid of creating confusion by mixing comedy and social commentary in this way?

You know, when I think of Barbies, I think of them as maximalist. Barbie’s aesthetic is excess. Her hair is too long, there’s too much glitter, she has too many outfits. For me she corresponds to an 8 year old little girl playing dress up. They don’t wear clothes tastefully. They will wear a tutu, with a boa, and a tiara, and gloves. The total. So I wanted the film to be full of ideas and information, because for me that’s inherent to Barbie. She is too much.

I put everything in it. Aesthetically, I was inspired by 1950s Hollywood musicals. I also thought about films by Preston Sturges, Ernst Lubitsch, Howard Hawks and George Cukor that make your head spin. And at the completely crazy end of Madame and her flirtations with the double marriage. These are films where the acting is very intense, and down to earth at the same time. I was talking with Margot and Ryan about Carole Lombard and Don Barrymore in Luxury train, they shout at each other but we stay with them. For me that had to be the hat trick of the film, putting on lots of layers and shooting non-stop to create a feeling of dizziness.

You made a strongly feminist film with a character who is not at all. Do you think this will change children’s perceptions of Barbie?

It’s funny because historically Barbie is a complex figure. She’s done all these jobs, she has her car, her house, Barbie went to the moon before women could have a credit card in their name. And at the same time, she is this unrealistic physical ideal which creates unattainable standards. But in reality Mattel has already carried out the transformation of Barbie, it was not me who did it. Barbie is much more inclusive today. And this unrealistic image is no longer represented by Barbie. You can find her on social networks. Kids are on their phones all day comparing themselves to photos. And I think it’s even more insidious because it’s harder to tell the difference. A Barbie doll is just a piece of plastic. The photos and videos we see on the internet look real when they are not.

The movie is called barbiebut it could just as easily have been called Barbie and Ken. What interested you so much about studying Ken’s character?

First of all, Ken is a hilarious character. With Noah, when we looked at his characters and wondered what their story could be, we said to ourselves that it was a bit of Genesis in reverse. Barbie was created first, then Ken was created to be her companion, or accessory. Ken is Barbie’s boyfriend, he has no meaning outside of that, she is his reason for being. He says it in the film, there is no Ken alone. And tackling his psychology seriously was interesting in my opinion. In Barbie’s world everything is reversed. He has no power, no money, no house, no car. We don’t even know where he spends the night. He is a tragic and hilarious figure. It’s almost Shakespearean. It’s a man playing a woman playing a man. At some point, you no longer know who you support, everything is deliciously turned upside down. It allows you to explore things without it feeling like a lesson.

Is Noah Baumbach Ken and you Barbie?

No, he’s Barbie and I’m Ken (laughs). I love my actors, and all the different roles. Also Gloria and her daughter, Sasha. I recognize myself in lots of different places in the film, without it being autobiographical. But I must say that the dream ballet between the Kens, when they have their big battle, I think it’s the most personal thing I’ve put in a film. That’s me on a fundamental level, I’m the person who wants to do a ballet with Ken. So it’s not autobiographical, but I feel like I’m laying myself bare with this scene. I love the dream balletI love seeing them dance.