Harrison Ford: “I’ve had times when there were a lot of crappy movies” (interview)
With The Dial of Destiny, Harrison Ford returned for a final trip as Indiana Jones, under the direction of James Mangold. While the film is released on VOD today, we take a look back at our meeting with the actor and the director during their triumphant Cannes tour last May.
A few months after its release, Indiana Jones 5 is available on VOD for purchase and rental. We met its star, Harrison Ford, and its director, James Mangold, during the presentation of the film at the Cannes Film Festival.
We are at the Hôtel du Cap-EdenRoc, the very chic residence of American stars during the Cannes Film Festival. It’s breakfast time and Harrison Ford offers us a coffee, while James Mangold answers our questions. The duo ends their marathon tour on the Croisette for Indiana Jones and the Clock of Destiny, fifth (and final?) film in the franchise with an aging Indy. Event screening, standing ovation, Honorary Palme d’Or, the actor did not spare himself during these few days. In front of us, he alternates between cynicism (“ It’s business. I’m here for the money “) and sincere emotion of saying goodbye to the character. He seems somewhat worn out by the promotional circus, searching for words, before recovering himself and letting go of his legendary heartthrob smile. For a second, he’s 25 again. Handsome as a god, fooled by nothing and especially not by his talent. But it turns out that Harrison Ford suddenly wants to go to the bathroom.
Like this, in the middle of the interview. He wakes up : ” I have to pee, shall I let you two finish with James? It was nice talking to you. » He holds out his hand to us, we are taken aback. “ Unless I leave too early? » – « It doesn’t matter, go for it! » – « Oh no, no. No problem. » He sits down again, professional to the end, while we blame ourselves for having prevented this tall 80-year-old man from relieving his bladder. He squirms a little in his chair, but reassures: “ Don’t worry. I’m somewhere in between: needing to pee and wanting to explain. This is the whole story of my life. (Laughs.) » So we laughed heartily, had more coffee and continued to ask our questions.
Watch Indiana Jones 5 on VOD on Première Max
FIRST: Something happens in the third act of The Dial of Destiny never before seen in an Indiana Jones film. On paper, it absolutely shouldn’t work. And yet, this gives rise to the most beautiful scene in the film. Did you have any doubts when filming?
JAMES MANGOLD: I thought that at one point someone was going to tell me to stop. (Laughter.) But that never happened. With the writers, Jez and John-Henry Butterworth, we didn’t know exactly how to finish the film. It appeared to me that it was impossible, following the rules of Indiana Jones, to have a relic that does not reveal the nature of its power. Which does not arouse Indy’s amazement.
HARRISON FORD: And who changes his life in the process.
J.M. : Yes. In each film, something crazy and magical always happens that clashes with Indiana Jones’ skepticism. It’s as if he had doubted the existence of ghosts throughout the entire film and, suddenly , they were there. He no longer has a choice: he must accept this new reality. Part of my job is a gamble: you surround yourself with the best in their respective fields, you set a course and you find a way to make it all work.
HF : You put everything in and you pray that it works. The truth is that the screenwriting phase is surely the most theoretical. At first, when I read the script, I didn’t understand that this third act scene we’re talking about was actually the…(He searches for words, his eyes turn red, he looks like he’s about to cry.)the true ending of the film. It’s a very strong dramaturgical choice, because the scene I perform with Phoebe Waller-Bridge at that moment is devastatingly emotional. It is his incredible performance that allows the characters, the themes of the story and the plot to find their point of convergence. The perfect alchemy. That’s the fucking magic of cinema.
Harrison, during the evening where you received your Honorary Palme d’Or, after the montage dedicated to you, you said you saw your life flash before your eyes. There was something fatal and very touching in your speech. I get the impression that at this point in your career you’re looking to come full circle: Star Wars, Blade Runner and now Indiana Jones. Is it important to close these chapters in your life?
HF: No not at all. It’s business. I’m here for the money. It’s a job.
Really ? Is that all you need?
HF : I take my job seriously and it’s a lot of fun, but it’s my job. And if a good script comes into my hands and it’s a character I’ve already played, why not? If the script is strong, there is a good director… I made this film because the opportunity presented itself to play Indiana Jones at a different time in his life. Until now, the character was defined by his strength, his courage, his youth and his physique. Take all that away from him, and suddenly I’m interested. I wanted to play him when he is no longer an adventurer: he drinks alcohol every day, is going to retire, falls asleep in his chair and has lost many important relationships in his life. (He thought for a few seconds.) A well-written script takes precedence over everything. I’ve been incredibly lucky to act in tons of films and collaborate with a lot of talented people. I don’t really need to work anymore, but I want to. One day I’ll be happy to retire, but I find it hard to resist a good script. That’s why I’m working so much at the moment: I came across a seam of good scripts.
So to summarize, money and good scripts.
HF 🙁He flashes his devastating smirk.) Don’t joke about money… No, in fact, I sometimes stupidly say that I’m in it for the money, because I want people to understand that it’s a job. That it’s not just a fairy tale. Basically, I see myself as a piano player: I have to keep rehearsing and discipline myself. I have to practice my art. In my career, I have always chosen the best that was offered to me, and what people wanted to see in the cinema. So of course, I’ve had times where there were a lot of crappy movies, so I made crappy movies like everyone else. But in some, I was still not bad at all. (Laughter.)
James, how much does Harrison Ford’s career go with him when you’re directing him? When you shoot, do you think about its status and what it represents in the collective imagination?
JM: Good question, but it would be even more interesting to ask Harrison how important his own myth is to his game?
HF: Do you want me to answer?
JM: Yeah, I’ll let you talk first because I’m interested in what you have to say about that. But I have a feeling you’re going to say you don’t think about it. (Laughter.)
HF : Effectively. I do not think about it. (Laughter.) No need to elaborate more than that.
JM: Still… By the time I made my second film, Copland, twenty-five years ago, I was confronted for the first time with this type of question. The first week, Robert De Niro has to perform a scene where he explodes in anger. We turn and Bob mumbles the whole time. It doesn’t work, because he absolutely has to lose his temper. I went to see him to ask him what was going on, and he said to me: “ I know what you want me to do…But I do that shit all the time. » (Harrison Ford bursts into a very loud fit of laughter.) And I tell him that he can’t play his career, that he has to play the character. He looked at me and said: “ OK that works. » And two minutes later, he plays the scene as I asked him.
HF: James said pretty much the same thing to me, but differently: at one point, he didn’t want me to ride a horse, so he said, ” Put your dick in your pants and think about the movie! » (He stands up, laughing, and pats James Mangold on the back.)
JM: Ah ah ah! The thing is, Bob and Harrison can’t think about their own legend when they’re filming. Because their legend is the consequence of their way of playing.
HF: And you should never play the consequence.
JM: Exactly. They got there by playing the scene and the character. And if they get lost along the way and start acting out their own legend, then it becomes business and no longer art.
At the risk of pointing out the obvious, this is the first Indiana Jones that Steven Spielberg did not direct. What weight does it take to come after him, and how do we appropriate such frankness?
JM: Wanting to make Indiana Jones my own would be to fall back into the same pattern of thinking as “playing the legend” for an actor. I’m always baffled by directors who force a signature shot that goes against the logic of the scene, or by those who absolutely want to do a sequence shot because they think that’s what’s expected. two. You can assert your personality just by performing. What comes from you will come out naturally. This franchise is not mine, and that’s partly why I agreed to make this film.
HF: Can I just say something about Steven?
JM: Of course.
HF: Steven is always present on a Indiana Jones, even when he doesn’t realize it. He’s someone I know by heart and vice versa. We grew up together and I always felt his love.(His eyes redden again.) I never worked under him, but with him. It was… nourishing. In this film, there is artistic and human continuity.
JM: I hope so. In any case, the idea of joining this universe which generates such high expectations was obviously intimidating for me. But I kept in mind that Lucasfilm didn’t hire me to brand Indiana Jones. I was invited to focus on what my instincts were telling me about this story, at this precise moment in the character’s life. And to be completely honest, the idea of making the film my own was – selfishly – less important than working with all the talents who made Indiana Jones. Because an experience like that doesn’t happen every day and it’s an incredible gift. (A press officer comes to tell us that the interview is over.)
HF: Obviously you’re short on time. That gives us something in common. (He winks and smiles.)
Indiana Jones and the Clock of Destiny, available on VOD. 2:34.
