Robert Redford: “All Is Lost is purity: no dialogue, no special effects”
The very beautiful film by JC Chandor returns this evening on Arte. We met its main performer when it was released in 2013.
“No dialogue. No special effects. In All is Lost I can’t cheat anymore…” On the occasion of the release of JC Chandor’s film, in 2013, we met the ultimate star, Robert Redford. While it is rebroadcast this Wednesday evening on Arte, we return to an interview like no other.
Good morning.
Good morning. Haven’t we met before?
Oh no.
It’s funny, you remind me of someone…
Are you younger?
What ?
Sorry, it wasn’t very good. It’s just that, when I was a teenager, I wanted to be like you, to be the Robert Redford of Three Days of the Condor (Sydney Pollack, 1975). I even bought a jacket that looked like the one he wore in the movie.
The tweed blazer with the elbow pieces? Very seventies…
Precisely this one yes. And it was while wearing it that I realized that not everyone can be Robert Redford.
(Laugh.)
I am very serious. In fact, this is one of the first questions I asked myself at the end of the screening ofAll Is Lost : Why you ? Why did Chandor ask you to play this role? Reading the summary, I was convinced that the film would be a Jeremiah Johnson (Pollack, 1972) on the water.
Which is not the case. Journalists often make the parallel but, in my opinion, this is a false lead, even if they are indeed two survivals and the moral could be that when all seems lost, some refuse to stop. Johnson fights the Indians, the cold, the loneliness, but he stands tall against it all. He perseveres. Same for the hero ofAll Is Lost, which continues, perhaps because it does not know how to do otherwise. Other than that…
Robert Redford, magnificent in the storm of All is lost (review)
The film made me think more of People Like Any Other (1981), in which you wondered about the life and death instinct in “ordinary people”. A bit like here, right?
It didn’t strike me, but it’s true that there is something like that in JC’s film and that the anonymity of the hero reinforces this existentialist dimension. However, honestly, I didn’t think for a single second about the films I made while filming. On the contrary, I very clearly had the impression of making a clean slate, of starting from scratch.
That’s what I meant with my question: I got the feeling that Chandor was never trying to play with your mythology.
Explain that to me.
When we see your film Quiz Show (1995)we immediately make the link with The President’s Men (Alan J. Pakula, 1976), two films that criticize the American myth. In The Man Who Whispered Horses (1998), it is the liberal and green Redford who finds himself behind and in front of the camera. Here, on the other hand, you seem to keep nothing from your filmography. If I have to caricature, I would say that I have the impression that with Russell Crowe the film would have been almost identical.
Hmmm…I see. I definitely bring Robert Redford into every one of my films, but that’s it. I always thought that critics didn’t notice enough how I constantly tried to play different roles. You were talking about Jeremiah Johnson, a film after which I made Vote McKay (Michael Ritchie, 1972). But we cannot find two more opposite characters. Then I played in Our best years (Pollack, 1973) before making The Great Gatsby (Jack Clayton, 1974). Do you see a connection between all of this?
A certain idea of 70s counterculture, committed lyricism and a certain class…
Maybe. In any case, it is the job of critics to put things in order. In my head, it has never been so clear. What I knew at the time was that I suffered from being pigeonholed into certain roles and judged solely on my looks. This is what pushed me to try new things, to blur the lines. When I go to see a movie with Clint Eastwood, I know exactly what to expect. This isn’t a criticism, but I know what his character will be like. For my part, on the contrary, I always looked for different things in the films I made.
What were you looking for in All Is Lost ?
The purity. No dialogues. No special effects. I immediately liked the idea of removing all the filters, of no longer being able to cheat and of being in direct contact with the spectator.
The game in its purest form?
A little. When I started my career, I was fascinated by two forms of acting: mime and improvisation. I had the impression that the basis of this profession was to convey emotions without verbalizing anything. For me, it was a supreme art form. Tell the story through the body and action. All Is Lost allowed me to come back to that. No longer having the safety net of speaking scared me at first, but what a pleasure!
You seem excited when you talk about it…
When JC offered me the role – he gave me a PowerPoint presentation of the film – I interrupted him after ten minutes to tell him I accepted. Instinctively, it seemed obvious to me. Then, I didn’t ask him anything, I didn’t impose anything on the shoot. It scared me but it also actually exhilarated me. Maybe because, as you said, I felt like I was returning to the roots of my profession.
After having been absent from the screens for a long time, you return as a leading man, and alone. Better: you’re finally filming with a Sundance award-winning director. It’s like you’re coming full circle.
That’s not my doing. The award-winning filmmakers at Sundance never offered me anything, JC was the first to offer me a role. But it is true that with All Is Lost, I feel like I’m putting things back in their place. I was an actor first, then I quickly became famous. From that moment on, the choice was simple: either I repeated myself by doing the same thing over and over again, with the same roles, or I changed direction. I needed to know what to do with this success.
Was it a burden?
It’s a big word, but yes, you have to be wary of the dark side of fame. I immediately sought to know how to use it for more human, more creative purposes. I founded Sundance, I tried to bring out new talents, I launched a TV channel, I campaigned for the environment… However, recently, I realized that I was far from the heart of my profession.
Who is…
Play ! In the most literal sense of the word. And that’s when JC came along with this film which, in its minimalism, seemed like a stripping bare.
All Is Lost is strangely elusive. You never know whether it should be seen as a political allegory, a character study or a pure survival story.
The allegorical part, I leave that to the public and the critics. If I have to see a metaphor in this film, I would simply say that it evokes our existential loneliness. More and more people are feeling alone because they feel like political systems don’t care about them. They are faced with famine, ecological disaster, anxiety about the future. Perhaps the fight my character goes through for survival is a reflection of the fight people go through for survival on a daily basis.
There, it is the Redford 70s, liberal and committed which resurfaces…
I just hope that we can see the subtlety of the film. I need subtlety and our times are sorely lacking in it, especially when it comes to art. Agree with me that contemporary films, especially blockbusters, are not very nuanced. Here we go. You who asked me what brings my films together, what can give meaning to my filmography, is perhaps this: subtlety or, in any case, recognition of the complexity of reality. Basically, all my films talk about America, but not the America praised by the slogans after the Second World War, not the America of the victors.
This time, it’s your turn to explain…
I have very vivid memories of my childhood. I lived with my parents in the working-class suburb of Van Nuys, Los Angeles, and the stories I was told at the time extolled the greatness of my country. I grew up in a world repainted in patriotic colors: red, white, blue. What they were trying to drill into our heads at the time was that the important thing was not whether we won or lost but how we played the game. However, I very quickly understood that all this was nothing but lies: what mattered in the United States was indeed to win. It is for this reason that I wanted to interpret or stage stories about hypocrisy, illusions, lies. My country refuses to face its complexity and prefers to be lulled by simple and schematic stories. I love the United States but I want to show the truth, to describe this country as I see it.
But, then, how All Is Lost does he fit into all of this?
From an economic point of view, this is almost an aberration. An independent film without special effects and with a single actor… Its minimalist side makes it almost a manifesto for pure cinema. And then it’s a work that demands a lot from the viewer. Today, it is rare to see a project on a human scale that has such ambition.
Basically, it’s your great return to a certain form of artistic integrity.I don’t know. I wouldn’t describe it like that, but yes, you might be right. This film allowed me to reconnect with something deep.
Robert Redford: “I will never stop acting or directing”
