Willem Dafoe in Kinds of Kindness: “You have to resist the temptation to be smart” (interview)

In Kinds of Kindness, the crazy new sketch film from Yórgos Lánthimos, Willem Dafoe plays three roles in three different segments. During his visit to the Croisette last May, we met the actor to examine with him his vision of the acting profession and his possible design Dafoes.

First: What did Yórgos Lánthimos tell you to sell you Kinds of Kindness ?
William Dafoe : Nothing. Because that’s a journalist thing! A poor understanding of the relationship between director and actor. In reality, there are not that many discussions upstream. This may seem cold to you, but in reality there is little talk about the film or the role, with the exception of a few adjustments. And it turns out that with Yórgos, everything happens during rehearsals and costume tests. For the third segment, I must have tested at least thirty! On this point, he is dictatorial until he has found what defines the character.

But before all that, and when you’re at home reading the film script, what do you think about? This is not such an easy scenario to understand.
I think about TO DO. How and not Why. I have to have a very clear idea of ​​what I’m aiming for, connect to the character’s issues. Something concrete, something alive. Sometimes I know right away what it is, and sometimes I don’t understand it myself. But it’s the same in real life, right? Cinema allows me to let myself be inhabited by impulses or thoughts that are not mine. I can get out of myself without any repercussions, without any price to pay. And for this film, I immediately felt comfortable in this universe with very defined contours. I had no trouble getting into it.

Do you have a method for preparing before a shoot?
You have to be careful what comes in here (He points his index finger to his temple), because it’s going to stay there. So I take precautions. Luckily, I’m not very tech-savvy. Which can sometimes make me dependent on people in a way that bothers me a little… But that’s another discussion (Laughs.) I don’t have social media and I do everything I can to keep the news to a minimum. My brain is disciplined enough to avoid looking at anything. But it’s so pronounced that sometimes, when I’m making a film, I’m unable to watch others. It’s too loud in my head. And it might sound crazy, but I also have to pay close attention to the music I listen to. There are people who are capable of listening to heavy metal two seconds before the shot for a scene that takes place in the 18th century. For me, it’s lunar. I definitely don’t want to have that in my head at that moment! And the older I get, the more aware I am of that. When I’m trying to get close to the mindset I need to shoot a scene, I have to clear my mental space as much as possible. Don’t add to the mess (Laughter.)

Concretely, what does it mean to “get closer to the state of mind” you need?
I start by creating associations related to the world of the film, but especially not outside the real world. I’ve been working for a long time and have done a lot of theater, but I’m not a very technical actor. Sometimes, I hear colleagues mention an interpretation – bastard in my opinion – of the Stanislavski method, which consists of substitution. For example, the character arrives at his mother’s grave, and he has to cry – well, who said he has to cry? -, so the actor must think of something sad in their own life to make the moment authentic. Except it’s not authentic, since you escaped from the moment. You weren’t really there… I maintain that it is possible to take something from the truth of the scene and impose it on your mind. I pretend but without pretending. (He looks intently at a glass placed on the table.)

Let’s say this glass is my mother: I’m really going to imagine that it’s my mother, try to create a connection with the object. If I start thinking about things from my real life, then I’m moving away from the experience of reality. And it just becomes craftsmanship or, worse, showing off. You have to resist the temptation to show off. My method is based on physical experience. I have to be in the moment and let something happen. Performing, not showing. And by staying in that state of mind – in that moment – without calling on anything else, then hopefully that’s where the audience will be willing to let themselves be taken in. Because they will be able to feel that they are experiencing something at the same time as me. Well, I admit that it sometimes feels like magic…

Kinds of Kindness by Yórgos Lánthimos, with Willem Dafoe, Emma Stone, Jesse Plemons… Currently in cinemas.