Yannick Nézet-Seguin: “I didn’t need to guide Bradley Cooper on emotion”
Maestro star, this Canadian conductor helped the actor slip into the shoes of Leonard Bernstein. Encounter.
Colorful nail, earring and arrogant youth… Yannick Nézet-Séguin looks like a rock star. However, he is one of the most prominent classical conductors of the moment. Conductor at the MET, regular guest at the Philharmonie de Paris, when he enters a concert hall, he is capable of igniting the philharmonic dancefloors, making fun of styles and schools. In just a few years, he has won over everyone: discerning listeners, critics, and he has succeeded in revolutionizing the somewhat stiff classical world. A bit like a 21st century Bernstein in short. Exactly: that’s why we’re here. Nézet-Séguin worked with Bradley Cooper on Maestro so that his interpretation of Lenny is never faulted. Between two Rachmaninov concerts, we met the young conductor who told us all about his work on this biopic.
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First: Yannick, we can start with a simple question: what was your role on Maestro ?
Yannick Nézet-Séguin: I was a conducting consultant, so I helped Bradley Cooper shape his interpretation of Bernstein on the podium. Obviously, he’s a great actor who didn’t need me to guide him on the physical details (closed eyes, intensity of the shoulders, etc.). But I was there to give him technical security, to support him so that the gestures, especially the right hand, were realistic and perfectly felt. For the hunt, he had watched Bernstein a lot so he had the details. But it had to be done in the right framework. Because despite Bernstein’s eccentricities, there is a framework of expression that must be understood, assimilated, to be as close as possible to the chef’s reality. All this without sacrificing emotion. Because portraying Bernstein on stage without conveying his emotional abandon would have been a big mistake.
It was therefore a very precise balance to find.
Yes, I had to help Bradley, who is not a chef, to acquire this technique, while allowing him to remain in his emotion. But I also recorded the entire soundtrack, all the musical moments where Bernstein leads the orchestra…
Did you teach Bradley Cooper to imitate Bernstein perfectly? Let’s put it another way: did you work like a copycat or did you give him a little freedom?
“Copycat” ahaha. I like this expression. First, the obvious: on stage and in music, he had to be Bernstein. On a musical level, I never tried to teach him the technique or the emotions of Yannick Nézet-Séguin (laughs). It was clear from the start: everything had to be done to represent Bernstein, to magnify him. And we had to be as close as possible to Lenny. Of his gestures, his vibrations, his manners… Take the scene where Bernstein plays Mahler in Ely Cathedral. Bradley’s interpretation of it is pure Lenny. He directed the musicians and they played for him. I had them rehearsed before in Bernstein style. And on a musical level, what I created as an interpretation is an interpretation that is almost more Bernstein than Bernstein. I took the characteristics of his version of Mahler’s symphony (the expansive tempos, the almost “Himalayan” emotional peaks) and I emphasized them, I brought them into relief, in a slightly more pronounced way. So that it hits even more the people who will hear and see the film. Bradley’s goal, and mine, was for everyone to discover what makes Bernstein so special and unique.
As a conductor, when you recorded the pieces for the soundtrack, the interpretation, was it therefore Bernstein more than Nézet-Séguin?
For the music that accompanied the scenes, I had to really stick to Bernstein’s tempi. The Manfred overture for example (Schumann’s masterpiece that he plays at the age of 25 in the very beginning of the film Editor’s note), I would never play it with this stretched tempo. But it really had to be how he interpreted it. He had recorded it with his hyper romantic interpretation and I had to stick to it. It was hard work… which was wonderful. Among other things because even if I don’t necessarily interpret the scores as Bernstein would, he remains a conductor that I adore, that I admire, and that I have always admired.
Concretely, can you explain to us how you worked with Bradley Cooper? Let’s take Mahler’s second at Ely Cathedral. There are archives that can be found on YouTube. Have you used these videos? And on stage, did you let Bradley Cooper really face the orchestra?
Yes, he played in front of the orchestra. Facing the LSO, by the way, the same orchestra with which Bernstein recorded this version of the Resurrection (name of Mahler’s symphony). The starting point is actually this Youtube video (see above). From this recording, I made several versions for Bradley. With different objectives: in one video I only talked about the beater and I focused on his right hand. I was recording as an audio commentary so Bradley could study his hand movement. In another video I taught him how to count, to get him used to feeling the rhythm and the pulsation. On yet another, I acted like a sports commentator: “And there, there is the entrance of the trumpets, so he turns to the right. Then, it’s on the left: the violins first…” Once he had worked with these modules, we moved on to practical work (laughs)
That’s to say ?
There is a very beautiful making-of photo where Bradley conducts alone, imagining himself in front of an orchestra. In front of him, the chairs are empty and there is only me, present just to guide him. This is what I call practical work! But I would like to return to your original question: the idea was not for Bradley to become a faithful copy of Bernstein. He had to get as close as possible to Lenny. But to be truly faithful to a conductor, you have to understand in a visceral, organic way, the meaning of each of his movements, of each of his looks. And only Bernstein has the key to that.
Concretely, how did Bradley do in front of the orchestra?
He had worked so he remembered everything. It sometimes happened that I guided him by earphone, but only for difficult passages. The musicians reacted to his gestures, and I could guide his movements with a little comment. Sometimes he got away with it just by counting, but we tried to avoid that because we didn’t want it to become too rigid. In my instructions, I advised him on the intensity of the gestures – when it should be more closed or more open, on increasing a crescendo… We had to invent a vocabulary. But for some takes Bradley was alone.
I saw the photo you are talking about and it interests me a lot. It is magnificent but I see something transgressive in it for a musician: the specificity of the conductor is his relationship with the musicians. Alone, he is nothing…
Yes, this is the fascinating paradox of this work with Bradley. A conductor’s technique obviously depends on the interpretation he wants to give to a text, but it also depends on what the orchestra gives him, on the feedback from the musicians. It’s an interaction. When I teach conducting I always repeat that you should never conduct in front of a mirror. You should never prepare your actions. It’s all in the moment. But if you are able to do it when you are an experienced chef, when you are not, you have to prepare. Like a top athlete. You have to pre-visualize everything, anticipate it. That said, it was Bradley who wanted the musicians to be there for the recording of the scene, and to play for real, so that he would be able to react to what they were going to give. This is also why the camera wanders around the orchestra, to give the viewer the point of view of the musicians, of those who played with Bernstein and who saw him from the front. In these moments, we are in the place of a member of the orchestra. We talked about it a lot with Bradley, he wanted to have the musicians’ point of view, and he asked himself at each stage: What will the musician see?
I was wondering how far Bernstein’s conducting technique has evolved over time and whether you took that into account in your work with Bradley Cooper?
It’s a funny question and it basically comes down to a very simple detail. His wand. At the start of his career, Bernstein did not use them. He led without. At Carnegie Hall, we rarely see him, but when he plays, there is no baton. And then gradually, he took one and so Bradley had to learn to play with it and hold it differently depending on the time. Watch this short clip of him teaching, at the end. There, he has this very specific, very flexible outfit…. He holds his wand almost like a cigarette.
Watching the film, I wondered how well Bernstein could play when he was on the podium. He was a beast of the stage, a huge “actor”, but when he is on stage, is he in the performance?
There are several elements of answer. But I will turn the question around: what is “play”? Let’s take the actors: I think it depends on each person. There are the masters of acting, who are at a distance and many who say to themselves “I absolutely must completely inhabit my character to interpret a text”. For whom it must be fusional. This variety of attitude also exists for chefs. Some chefs will be in the “acting”. What touches me about Bernstein, even if some say he does too much, is his emotional authenticity. That is to say that, even if he does a lot, I have the impression that it is only because he illustrates the music and does not censor himself. He allows himself to experience what he interprets, fully, totally. And it was revolutionary at the time.
How exactly was it revolutionary?
Bernstein was a pioneer. He was… polyglot in his way of approaching music (laughs). He has also been criticized for the fact that he can do everything. But today, in the 21st century, we accept this more easily. “Okay, he does Broadway, he composes film scores, he conducts Brahms before moving on to TV shows.” He was a pioneer in his way of completely embodying music on stage. And this expansion, this overflowing desire, we find them on the podium. It also corresponds to the works he played…
But when Claudio Abbado performs Mahler at the end of his life, without a baton, in a minimalist way, he also embodies this music in a very powerful way. And the emotion is devastating.
It is an opposite version, radically, absolutely opposite. And you are right, one does not exclude the other. But Bernstein opened up possibilities for chefs.
We haven’t said it yet, but he was such a beauty… He was like Karajan…
An icon !
And who knew how to connect with the public in a fantastic way. It’s pure seduction.
I dare to believe that they are less aware of the public than we think. Finally… let’s say that as a leader you must always be aware of the public, but you must not do anything For the public. Because in any case, if it’s for the public that we play and not for the music, the musicians don’t follow. This seduction or this charisma – whatever word we use – for me it firstly characterizes the relationship of the conductor to his musicians who are captivated and who, for this reason, will want to give the best of them- same. That’s what counts in the end. Whether it is Abbado in this minimalism, in this abandonment or on the contrary Bernstein in this more expansive gesture or Karajan in the hyper control, what I notice is that there is no barrier between them and the music. I have the impression that when we say that we play, it suggests that it is not experienced. It’s wrong ! Look at great actors, look at Bradley: they live what they interpret.
