Zal Batmanglij: “I think we will one day manage to film the sequel to The OA” (interview)

The co-creator of Un Meurtre au bout du monde and The OA chairs the jury for the international Séries Mania competition. Encounter.

After beginnings in independent cinema (Sound of My Voice And The East), Zal Batmanglij and his work partner Brit Marling shook the world of series in 2016 with the heady UFO The O.A.. Last year, the duo returned to the small screen for A Murder at the End of the World. Coming solo to the Séries Mania festival to chair the jury for the international competition, Batmanglij found a few minutes in his busy schedule to answer our questions.

You have agreed to be the president of the jury for the international competition of the festival. Is it complicated to judge your peers?
(In French) I can't find it, because… (He switches back to English) We return to something childish when we are a simple spectator. I approach watching these series with a very open mind and I seek authenticity above all.

What is authentic to you in a series?
It could be Claire Foy's performance in The Crownlove of nostalgia Stranger Thingsthe desire to go beyond appearances in I May Destroy You… The problem is that the screenwriter may have something completely authentic to say, but the director fails to convey it. And it happens that it is the opposite. In an ideal world, there is authenticity on every level.

I have the impression that your work is built on a misunderstanding of the world around us. As if the universe is an absolute mystery to you and Brit Marling, and you are trying to make some sense of it through the only thing you truly understand: human feelings.
It is very true. There is practically nothing but the unknown in life. We are convinced that we have got it all figured out, but that is obviously false. You only need to look a little at particle physics or theoretical physics: in fact, we really don't know anything. We have the illusion that everything is stable, while our most brilliant minds assure us of the opposite. The rules that govern the universe are very complicated and much stranger than we think. And yet, our stories have become more conservative than ever… The other day I saw again Shampoo by Hal Ashby (with Warren Beatty, Julie Christie and Goldie Hawn) and I was struck by this… I don't want to say “weird”, because I think it's a derogatory term, but let's say this freedom of the films of the 70s. Where has it gone today? I think we are overwhelmed by the Internet. Bombarded with information. (In French) And we are tired… Tired of new ideas emerging all the time, of constantly maintaining virtual contact with others… (in English) All of this contributes to killing creativity and freedom.

We experienced a golden age of the series not so long ago, but things are slowly starting to settle down. True masterpieces are becoming increasingly rare. How do you explain it?
It's very complicated… During the first golden age, or at least the golden age that we experienced during our lifetime, we had The Sopranos, Sex and the City, Six Feet Under…Series made by very experienced people – David Chase worked for thirty years before getting to this point – real craftsmen who were given the opportunity to explode the frame. And it was exhilarating for the audience. Today, there is no longer this level of craftsmanship. Lots of different voices can be heard, but no one has three decades of experience behind them. When we imagined The O.A. with Brit Marling, we had never done a series! There was something fresh in there, and at the same time what could we have produced with greater background? I'm very curious to see what the series will look like in around thirty years, when today's creators have had some experience.

Has the distribution imposed by Netflix, namely making all the episodes of a season available at once, not also changed the relationship we collectively have with series?
Of course, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. With Brit, we saw The O.A. a bit like a book: you can choose to devour it in one night, or ration yourself to one chapter per day. And this vision coincided with the way in which Netflix was breaking the codes of traditional broadcasting. (He thinks) When they got into streaming, it was a time of unparalleled creative freedom. Those days are now over.

And the business model of Netflix has changed drastically in a few years, which has also cost the lives of The O.A. after two seasons. What do you think of the evolution of the platform?
I saw Netflix change its business model in real time, and I understand very well why they did it: when you have a phenomenon like Stranger Things, which appeals as much to kids as to thirty-year-olds or grandmothers, and that the French, Indians or Americans find themselves there, why wouldn't you try to do the same with all your series? But what’s happening right now goes well beyond Netflix. THE storytelling is a very valuable asset. And if you start inundating people with series, as has been the case for the last five or six years, then you act as if there is no value in telling stories. It makes me sad, I feel like everything comes from the factory. I don't feel the craftsmanship in it anymore.

Receiving his Oscar for Oppenheimer, Christopher Nolan reminded us that cinema is only a little over 100 years old and that we don't know where it will take us in the future. As the series are obviously even younger, would you say that it is an art form in full adolescence, waiting to reach adulthood?
Quite. Besides, I really want to take a step back from the series. That way, I will be able to better analyze it and come back to it while appreciating it as an art in its own right. What is a series, really? We group them all under the banner “television”, but it’s not even television anymore! I do not know what it is. Surely long form storytelling, whatever that means. In any case, I want to rediscover the very special feeling that Brit and I had when we started working on this format. Ideally, I would like to continue what we started with The O.A. and make a series that actually resembles a novel. The first season ofHouse of Cards was getting close to that. So I believe it is possible to create bridges between these two art forms, even if I don't know exactly how to do it yet.

You said during your masterclass at Séries Mania that you wrote the last three seasons of The OA...
We didn't write them, but we have the whole story in mind, right up to the end.

Does it still seem realistic to you to be able to shoot the sequel?
Yes, I believe it will work one day, but I don't know when. The stars must align: when the first two seasons saw the light of day, all the conditions were met. I think it will happen again. I'm grateful to Netflix for this freedom we've been given. The adventure The O.A. ended, but that doesn't matter: I'm already happy that the series could exist. There is no resentment or anger on my side. But with Brit, we're not the type to wait for someone to reach out to us. When we want to complete the story, we will do it with those who want to accompany us.

You also mentioned your very special relationship with Dorothée, whose show you watched during your regular vacations in France, until you were 15 (he was born in Nice and spent his first five years in France). What did the Dorothée Club represent for a child coming from another culture?
Kids don't understand cultural differences. It didn't matter where we were, if the television was on, then it mattered. And Dorothée was a little magical in my eyes. This woman was, in a way, the keeper of the stories. It was fascinating. The funny thing is that most of the stories I loved on the show came from Japan. So Dorothée was a vehicle for stories that were imagined on the other side of the world. (In French) It's a bit incredible, isn't it? (Again in English) When we were kids, we instinctively understood the power of anime and today, it's no longer up for debate. Between the ages of 13 and 23, in the United States, I was prepared to enter society. I felt like I was losing focus, like I was losing something. But that was never the case when I was in France. So – and without any shame – I am still able to return to this magic of childhood through my memories of Club Dorothée.